How An EXPERT Shines Shoes (ft. Champion Shoe Polisher Anders Sundström)

Transcript:

This conversation has been lightly edited for clarity.

[Jack] Welcome back to the Gentleman’s Gazette. Today, I’m in London at the Arterton Showroom with Anders Sundström, the Swedish champion of shoe shining. So, Anders is going to take us through the advanced stages of a shoe shine. This is where we transform that ordinary polish and shine into something really quite exquisite that you really don’t see anywhere else. 

[Anders] Right, so when we want to build a spit shine, there are two parts of it—the main parts. There’s the building layers part, where we build layers to create a base for the spit shine, and then you have the finishing stages, where you want to finish it off to create that mirror-like shine. 

But before we start, I just want to tell—here are a pair of shoes—generally, when we have a pair of shoes that are used, we might actually have to condition them. In this case, these are new, so we don’t need to condition. They’re good to go for a spit shine. 

[Jack] And I can see that there’s a slight difference between these two. So, this one has kind of got a bit of a dull shine on it. This is a pair of shoes from [???]. They’re not an exact pair. We’ve got two right feet from two very similar shoes. But, yeah, this one’s got kind of that dull factory shine on it, and this one has got more of an advanced shine being worked on already, but I think we’re going to use both of these pairs to demonstrate the those different stages of how you can go from that kind of everyday polish to something really quite exquisite. 

So, tell us, where do we start? 

[Anders] So, once they are conditioned or new, first off, we want to build layers, and we want to, first, for PB, we want to use the Spitshine, cause this is literally the best product for building layers. 

[Jack] Got it. So, PB is Paul Brunngård. 

[Anders] PB for Paul Brunngård. And what we do first is apply. You could use cloth, you could use a hand. I use a glove. Less dirt in the nails, but it doesn’t really matter. It’s just about applying. 

The key here is building thin layers on top of each other because the biggest mistake most people do is grabbing a bunch of goo of the wax and trying to put that on the surface, and it will always result in failure. Either you won’t be able to release the shine to get a good shine, or what will happen is that the solvents in the bottom of the wax layer will not evaporate, but the top will, which means that the shrinkage isn’t homogeneous and it cracks. 

[Jack] Right. yeah. and that’s before you’ve even set foot in the shoe, and we’re not talking about the leather cracking or creasing along the vamp. We’re talking about the polish itself cracking the leather. 

[Anders] So, we’re talking about the wax layer cracking, not the leather itself. And obviously, like you said, we focus, when we build a spit shine, on certain parts. The toe, the heel, not where you have the creases along the vamp, which is—most experienced users know this, but just to be stated—there are different places where you even can build a proper spit shine. Never on the creases. 

[Jack] Do you find it easier to practice and learn this on a shoe with a toe cap or… Because, I mean, this is a whole cut. It still has the same hard counter in the front, right? But, this is going to be harder to judge if you’re relatively new to the world of shoe polishing. So, would you say a toe cap is a good judgment? 

[Anders] Actually not. Because the counter where you have the cap is not always equivalent to the cap itself. So, you might always have to feel a bit where the line is. Usually, you know your shoe, so you will know where exactly where to start and stop. And here’s the thing and we will come to that in the finishing stages, but let’s say, we build a spit shine on the toe, we can’t do it here. 

We need to make a gradient. We need to make a high shine to a moderate shine. This is very important to create a general sense of ease. A general sense of balance between the shine. Not a super high shine and then a sharp edge—too much contrast. So, when building layers, what we do is we start thin, especially the first layers—always have to be thin—and this is vital because the first layer will act as a barrier for possible stains. So, we start off by just adding a wax and, as soon as you feel friction or feel that the wax is starting to dry, you just add a bit of wax again. And this is just building wax. 

We don’t want to use water, yet, cause this is only applying wax to the shoe to be able to build. And as you see, I use very thin layers and I do these small circles to blend the waxes. And by doing this way, we can ensure that the wax is homogeneous. 

The wax layers, we don’t want to have a thick layer that cracks in the bottom, in the top. And this is all about patience now. Continue to do it as much as you like. You can do two layers, three layers; you can do twenty layers. It’s all about how thick of a layer you want—how much shine. This is where you define the thickness of the spit shine. 

[Jack] Got it. So this, you’re currently using the Paul Brunngård Spitshine, correct? Not the Sublime Wax. Even though the Spitshine is what people would consider as a finishing. 

[Anders] Actually, for the Paul Brunngård assortment, when we made the Spitshine, it is made to be optimized for the whole spit shine process. So, you could use it only. You don’t only need the Spitshine to do from building to finishing 

[Jack] Because you’re the… This is something that’s quite interesting, actually. Anders is actually the guy behind Paul Brunngård. You’ve formulated these waxes and shoe care products through years of experience using other brands—kind of seeing what works, what doesn’t, where you’d like to improve things. So, that’s really interesting to know that the whole range is kind of meant to work with each other. 

[Anders] Yeah, exactly. And for example, if we were to do this as a whole, if we’re not doing a spit shine, we might apply the Sublime Wax on here. We have more flexibility, where we don’t want to risk any cracking. So, obviously, you could use the Spitshine, but again, the Sublime, which is more ideal because you can use that together with a yak hair brush to get a really nice shine. As you might have noticed, I’ve gone from applying wax from the toe to the heel, and this is actually very important because this gives a bit of time for the wax that is applied on the toe to settle. 

Solvent evaporating and the wax starting to solidify, which makes it harder and this is, by jumping between the different parts and regions of the shoe, this allows me to do the whole spit shining much faster. And that is… It will also be much thicker layers because one of the key components to a proper spit shine is patience. My worst part—I am not good with patience. 

[Jack] Okay, so this is something that you want to do. This isn’t a quick fix. This is something that, if you’ve got some time of a weekend perhaps or an evening, you really want to kind of make this a labor of love for those special pairs of shoes that just make you feel great, I suppose. 

[Anders] Yeah, definitely, it’s a meditative state. Meditation. You work with hands and, as you see now, as soon as I let the waxes dry, which means that I have to use additional wax to sort of melt it or create a smooth polishing procedure. So, this is why, again, we need to jump between the regions because this allows it to settle, and the end result will be much faster. You could even have one pair where you jump between the shoes itself. The problem with this method is that you need the final stages for the toe will take longer, but the whole pair will be faster.

[Jack] Got it. Okay, so there’s a little bit of a sacrifice at one point for a benefit all over?

[Anders] Yeah, exactly, because, in the end, the time it takes for the whole pair is what matters. But, the appreciation and the good feeling of releasing a shine, that is what gives you motivation. let’s say, to continue doing this very meticulous work. And again, I think what’s important here is to know that you don’t have to continue as I do now— just adding layers—you could stop at this moment and start to finish it. It’s just a matter of how thick of a layer you want. 

So, now, we’ve allowed this wax to settle for about 5 to 10 minutes, which would be fine. If you wait longer, that’s all so fine that’s even better, but at this stage, we’re now ready to… We’re not at the finishing stage; we’re still in the build-up phase, but we need to release the spit shine to make a shiny surface. Now, to do this, we need a cloth— preferably want to use cotton, something with a good breathability. Some people do prefer a hard one. I always recommend using something that’s a bit more flexible— usually, something you find, for example, in T-shirts, that kind of fabric. But, again , everybody has the preferences when it comes to polishing cloth—there’s no one golden rule. So, to each his own. 

Next one, what we need is obviously the the Spitshine and the most important part here is the water; and it’s just not any water—cause, when we do it like a basic spit shine, we just use water, room temperature— but when we’re building a spit shine, temperature is key. It’s actually one of the most important parts of how you do it efficiently. So, when we build wax layers, we want to use cold water. 

[Jack] So are we talking tap cold water or fridge cold water? 

[Anders] Freezer cold water. What I do is, when I do it, ideal if I have a freezer, is that I take a glass put it in a freezer, and cool it down so it freezes like 18 minus degrees Celsius, and then, I put it out and just add a pinch of water, so I have like two mm of water in the glass. What this means is that water is always chilled to up 0 to 4 degrees, which is perfect for building layers. However, it does create a dull shine. But, it builds layers better and faster, but it creates a dull surface. When we finish, we want to have a high shine, we want warm water, but that’s the next stage. 

So, ideally, cold water for building, and you could use room temperature. At this point, we only use slightly chilled water because we don’t have freezing water at the moment, and one important part here will be, when we polish, friction is the enemy; so as soon as you feel friction, you need to either apply wax or water, and the goal is to use as little water as possible. But, if you use too little, you will tear the shine. If you use too much, you could create water spots. So, again, it’s always between finding that balance. 

[Jack] So, it looks like you and I do the same. I also use cut-up bits of T-shirts. I just basically, from the body of the T-shirt, I’ll just cut strips all the way along, and then, do as you’ve done—wrap it around. 

[Anders] This is not a T-shirt. 

[Jack] That’s not a T-shirt, that? 

[Anders] This is a PB Polishing Cloth, which is optimized for polishing. [Jack] Okay, there’s the logo! 

[Anders] Yeah! So, what we do now is just tightening it, and there are different ways—you can just fasten it in your glove.

[Jack] Because the idea is you want a lot of tension across these fingers.

[Anders] Exactly. The biggest mistake is that you have creases, and that’s why we want flexibility in the textile, cause we can really get that neat, perfect fit. The important part here: Now, when we’ve allowed the wax to settle, it will be hard. So, if I start to polish with water now, it’s going to ruin it. So, first, we had additional wax. What this will do is just dissolve the waxes that make it slightly soft, and at this stage, you can just add your first pinch of water. Just to drop and start polishing. And as soon as you feel friction, just add a bit of pinch of water like this.

[Jack] And it really is about that tiniest amount of water?

[Anders] Yeah, cause, again, your enemy is too much water, and the thicker the spit shine you make, the more safe you are for typical issues like water spots or dry spots, and at this stage, you can also add additional layers because, in the end, you want a high shine here so you shouldn’t be afraid to use more wax. But, now we’re using wax and water continuously to create this lubricated surface, where we polish the wax, hardened wax to a smooth surface.

[Jack] Got it! I can understand how a potential challenge when doing the polish around, especially, these sort of really structured areas, such as the toe, might be getting the polish all the way around the shoe towards the welt. Do you find that a challenge as well?

[Anders] Yeah, definitely, and this is, typically, this is a big challenge because what you can do is obviously use a cloth to press it inside the rounded surface, but it’s a bit challenging to make it a spit shine at this stage. Obviously, it’s something the user won’t see from far, but if you take and see close, you could see that kind of issue. And here’s a good point for those who always are a bit nervous when spit shining: the thicker layer is built. the longer it will take to release the finish,  which means that, at this stage, I would actually apply quite some layers and this means it will take longer. But, you don’t have to worry. What you can do—what I usually do—is, you see this toe isn’t finished, it’s starting to create a release, which goes from matte to shiny, we just jump to the heel cause, again, I’m allowing the wax to settle and we can continue with the heel. For this heel, for example, I applied much lower amounts of layers—much faster. You can always see the release coming right away.

[Jack] Yeah, definitely, I mean, it’s something that, just around the edge here, I’m noticing that shine starting to come out.

[Anders] Yeah, and again, we’re not doing the finishing stage. We’re just trying to bring out the spit shine because here we can see that the wax layer is covering the grains, which is the whole concept of a spit shine; and we just need to add until we’re satisfied.

[Jack] Cause I think that’s the thing, isn’t it? When you’re adding those layers of polish—and that’s why it’s so important to add the layers of polish—you’re trying to create a completely smooth, flat surface. It’s not about just making the shoe shine. It’s about making the shoe flat

[Anders] Obviously, what will happen is you have fantastic water repellency, but again, it will be literally a thick layer of wax, so good water repellency. The problem is— for example, salt stains—you would be a bit careful in the winter with the spit shine. But, yeah. So, now we just jump to the toe again. We continue.

[Jack] Excellent. So, the formulation of this particular wax, is it something that you’ve spent a lot of time on making sure you’ve got the exact level of ingredients?

[Anders] Yeah, so, for example, when you’re doing the spit shine, one of the problems you will run into is, of course, solvent and waxes—hard waxes and soft waxes. So, when we made this, we made sure to use the right amount of hard waxes to be able to build layers. Because soft waxes are harder to build layers with; hard waxes are easier. And so, by doing this, that is one important part. 

The exact amount of solvents is also a key part of how well it will function in this. Because as soon as the solvents evaporate, they draw energy from the substrate and this cools the wax and settles it. So, the solvent is important. It has a very important part in the whole process of a spit shine.

[Jack] So, there’s a lot of science that goes into how a split shine works—probably more than I’ve ever realized. I’ve definitely learned a lot from speaking with Anders over the years. 

[Anders] Yeah, but, obviously, this is a technique and you don’t need to maybe understand, but understanding what happens really helps you to know what should I do now, when should I apply water, and when should I apply wax; and one important part I think most people miss, people only use, for example, the finger to know “Okay, now I need to apply water. Now, I need to apply wax,” but that’s actually a mistake. You have eyes, you have ears, and you have smell, and all those components. You need to listen to the scratching surface as you do the small circles. 

A good spit shine, when it’s starting to release, it becomes very smooth and there’s no sound; and then, you know, “Oh, now, I’m at the stage where I can use more water;” compared to, for example, when you hear a lot of scratching, “Maybe I need additional wax layers.”

[Jack] So, how long did it take you to get this technique down?

[Anders] A very long time. Usually, you say, to become really good at something, you need like 10,000 hours, and I definitely had my 10,000 hours when it comes to shining shoes.

[Jack] I kind of feel like, for you, 10,000 hours is the bare minimum. 

[Anders] Yeah, definitely, definitely. But, again, as you see now, it’s still a bit dull, this shine. But, it’s not a problem, you don’t have to worry. We use slightly cooled water; and obviously, we’re just building, we’re building, and we’re more aggressive on the toe because we want to just have a thicker layer. Finishing comes next, and this is where we’re just getting that explosive, sharp shine release. 

[Jack] “Explosive.” Yeah, definitely not a term that I thought we would hear today, but there you go. We are exploding the world of shoe polishing. 

[Anders] Right, so now, we applied multiple layers of wax to create that wax layer, covering the grains. We also released it to create a dull shine—let’s say— just to be able to build on it, to finish it. And as you can see, we have applied on the heel, on the toe; much less on the vamp, obviously, due to the creasing issue—creasing, where you have the issue. So, toes and heels are focus points. 

[Jack] And I think it important to say at this point: When you say a dull shine, this is when I think a lot of people would actually stop shining their shoes and think that this is a completed mirror shine. This is why we really wanted to make this video because it’s going to showcase how you can take something that most people would go, “I’ve achieved a mirror shine,” and really elevate it into something special. So, yeah, let’s move on. 

[Anders] Thank you. So, what we do now is, ideally, we can work on this shoe or you could work on this shoe; however, we’re going to use this particular shoe because this has been… You’ve applied a spit shine on it, it’s been used at the store for a while, so the waxes has settled more efficiently. What we do is we take our cloth, we apply a small bit of wax, and we start to polish; and the idea is here is to initially just build thin, thin, thin layers, and we want to use warm water. Like I said before, cold water is ideal for building layers; now, we want to use warm water for finishing. And this is the key. And we can use our breath because it creates a humid and tempered layer of water. 

[Jack] Got it! Now, I also recognize that there is a shoe tree in this particular shoe. How important would you say shoe trees are when doing a shine of this level? 

[Anders] You would always want to use a shoe tree. Actually, even in the buildup layers. But, why we want to have a shoe tree is we want to avoid potential creasing as we polish and you get a rigid shoe so you can easily move around. It’s a matter of preference. Some prefer it, some don’t. It’s not really really important—if you really prefer not to have one, it’s not the end of the world. But, I highly recommend to use it. 

[Jack] Now, what would you consider the most difficult leather to polish is? 

[Anders] Pebble grain is not fun. Pebble grain, it’s a hatch grain, pebble grain. Those can be polished really nice, but the problem is the grains, it’s harder to cover with wax, so you can easily get water spots. I think that’s the main typical issue you will have in the pebble grains. 

[Jack] And again, that’s because of the texture. It’s meant to have lots of peaks and valleys, and when you’re trying for this level of high shine, again, it’s about getting the leather to be essentially as flat and as smooth as possible, which kind of then spoils the texture of the pebble grain. 

[Anders] Yeah, yeah. What you could do: At the tip of a pebble grain, where you have stretched the leather maximum, this is where you can achieve a bit of a spit shine. Generally, for pebble grain, I don’t recommend to even do a spit shine. I do recommend being a bit lighter on the polishing side. 

[Jack] Just that high shine, as we saw before, would be the level you’d want to go. 

[Anders] Yeah, never above that. I would actually, even less. Maybe, on the tip, where you have a lot of stretch because you have more limitations. So, now, we’ve actually only used warm water to finish. We only use thin layers of wax to just—thin layers and warm art to just create a much more nice finish. What we can do now is to finish with an alcohol blend, and what we want to use is isopropanol. 

[Jack] Not tequila?

[Anders] I would say whiskey. 

[Jack] Oh, okay! Interesting!

[Anders] But that would be alcohol abuse. So, here’s the thing—generally, what people recommend is like 5%. I have mastered a bit of my own technique, where we want to use higher content of isopropanol together with wax. 20, 30%, even 40%—it depends on preference. But the problem with using this technique is you can only do it on an existing spit shine, and ideally a spit shine that is about two days old. Because what happens if you put it on a piece of leather, it penetrates quite fast into the leather, so it could get water spots, ruin it. 

[Jack] So, you could stand to, essentially, strip off all of the work that you’ve put in if you do it too quickly? 

[Anders] Exactly. So, you can never use it in the building phase. You could use like 5% max in the build-up phase, but a higher content—never in the build-up phase. Only in the finishing. So, now, at the finishing stage, what we’re going to do is apply a very thin layer of wax—this is a very, very thin layer of wax—quite fast onto the surface, and it’s going to be, as soon as you feel the friction, you’re going to apply the isopropanol mixture, and since we’re using a clean part of the cloth, this is going to take some time. And it’s really important that you apply very… Once you apply the isopropanol-water mixture, since it’s a highly concentrated one, you need to move very fast. And since the surface is very smooth due to the built-up spit shine, you will have a very smooth surface movement. 

[Jack] You know, it will help and allow you to move quicker 

[Anders] Yeah, what it will help is to create a wax that solidifies perfectly to create a very clean shine because all the scratches fill-out without building additional new ones because the wax layer hardens perfectly. But, since we’re using a clean cloth, this takes more time, so don’t be worried if finishing or releasing takes longer but the more wax you apply, the long longer it could take.

[Jack] Got it. What’s the benefit of using a clean part of the cloth? 

[Anders] So, it will help to create a much cleaner shine—that’s the end result. Why this happens is because a clean cloth will help to absorb waxes into the cloth itself, and if it’s already filled and you polish with it, it will be harder. So, this is a softer… It will be softer and more absorbent. But, again, as soon as you apply isopropanol mixture, you have to move really, really fast as you see that I’m doing, and this will create that really sharp finish. 

[Jack] I mean, you can see it coming together right in front of your eyes. It’s quite something to behold, really. 

[Anders] Yeah, absolutely. And when you apply the droplet, don’t apply it here; apply it on the side. Because, again, if you apply too much, for example, or if you apply on a spot where you don’t have enough wax layers, you can get a spot. So, you have to be a bit careful with this particular methodology. But, it’s a great one for a really neat shine, and you can use it on any wax product, obviously. 

[Jack] Excellent! Yeah, it’s incredible. I mean, we talked earlier about an “explosive” shine, but I do get what you mean as it’s forming in front of my eyes, really. 

[Anders] So, what we can see here is the sharpness of each lighting. You could even mirror yourself. You can have the cameraman. You can see the cameraman. So, this is sort of the general idea when we do the spit shine with the finishing stage. It’s all about creating a very sharpness and cleanness to avoid scratches. Obviously, at this stage, you can just continue until you’re satisfied. There are no limits. But, you’re not really building more, you’re just finishing off so the surface is smoother.

[Jack] So, yeah, and I think this is the thing really: whereas, this is the shoe that we started on and is certainly a shine that you could be quite happy with, this just showcases how much you can elevate and really get that explosive mirror shine for something that’s just far more exquisite. Truly an expert level. Something for a connoisseur and an enthusiast. Anders, thank you so much for showcasing your expertise and really showcasing the tips within the shoe care industry.

[Anders] Absolutely! Been a pleasure. I hope you learn something.

[Jack] Absolutely! Cheers!